« Why social media sites want "users," not just "customers" | Main | Haven is in »

14 August 2008

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Jeremiah Owyang

What's this cage I see round me? There are reputation points everywhere, from feedburner numbers to twitter numbers, to votes in and out. Game mechanics are all around us --appealing to our most human desire for achievement. Your passion is coming through now Peter, great stuff.

John Jantsch

Peter, as one of those that you claim fell into these traps - you've forgotten one very important ingredient - Dave and Andy are friends with established trust - for me that's the only motivation.

Adam

cool blog - found it from @jowyang on twitter

i dont do this often, but i wrote something similar on this idea a bit ago - this is definitely the strategy of 'focusing on making others popular':

http://thefuturebuzz.com/2008/04/15/a-powerful-strategy-focus-on-making-others-popular/

Meryn Stol

This seems like "How to win friends and influence people" 2.0. Love it. :)

JoeC

Peter,

Fascinating stuff. I love how you pulled in game mechanics, and the term "social media ego trap" is a gem.

What would be very interseting would be to look at times the marketer was caught in his own trap. In other words, highlight (low-light?) examples in which a marketer misplayed the game and wound up being derided by the blogosphere.

Your fan,
Joe

Pete

Hello John. Although we've never met, let me make a public assurance to you and others I've linked to above that this post isn't meant a personal insult. I don't know you well enough to justify that. I know Dave and Andy as well, although maybe not as well as you.

We are all users and used at some point. Maybe friends just have a more balanced exchange of value over time.

Pete

Hi Jeremiah. Just doing my best to apply what I learned from you and Charlene!

Pete

Hi Joe - good question. I see Wil E. Coyote wondering why his trap didn't work, then getting crunched by an anvil. Let me think about it.

kdoohan

Nice article. Shared on friendfeed. Totally see the logic here and had never seen it in the way you're describing. Thanks for sharing your insight & perspective. Good stuff.

PurpleCar

You're kidding, right? Please tell me this is all sarcasm. (if i have to ask, then it probably isn't...)

This is just plain creepy. Perhaps my skin would crawl less if the article focused more on unique ways to promote your work instead of raw humanless exploitation. The tone of this piece is a prime example of what people complain about marketing: being prodded and used like cattle. It's the ambulance chasing of marketing.

Pete

PurpleCar - I don't understand your comment about the tone of the post. It's not sarcastic at all. Is the ego trap "bad" as you imply? If so, why?

You need to read some of the earlier posts that lead up to this one. Ego traps are part of the way social media operates. BTW you're susceptible - otherwise why leave a link to promote your blog with your comment?

Philippe

Hi Pete,

I'm currently preparing a conference presentation about "small-seed" versus "big-seed"

Both aim to activate a network.Right?

Small-seed is based on the theory that you activate a network by adressing the hubs (See Armano's influence ripples theory)

Big-seed is the theory defended by Duncan Watts who claims that if you want to activate a network efficiently (and with less riks of being un-noticed) you have a maximize your points of contacts.

Ego traps clearly applies to small-seed strategies since it's based on scarcity. My experience is that this it's very risky way to make marketing, that you can fail big time (have no share of voice at all) and that results are hard to predict.

As a conclusion, I agree, it's easy to touch the ego's but I'm not sure it's the most efficient way to pursue marketing objectives and to maximize your reach at the end of the day.

John Bradford

Hi Pete,

Great post about a very controversial topic.

Interesting to note that Steve Boyd disclosed the full nature of the 'negotiated discount for /Message readers' whereas the others linked to didn't. Maybe they weren't in that part of the affiliate revenue share?

I also downloaded Dave's book from Six Pixels of Separation (not sure if they were on the original list of 20). I haven't made it all the way through yet but as someone new to this it seems a pretty good read. Not sure I'll shell out for the dead-tree version though.

Pete

Hi Philippe - interesting place to transport the "ego trap" framework. I agree with you that the ego trap is in line with small seed strategy. But not all seeds are created equally; the ones planted by Sernovitz/Balter are certainly different than those planted by Mack Collier's "Z-list." Moreover, I believe you also point out why mass media still works! (not a bad thing)

Hi John - Yes, I found Boyd's discussion of an "affiliate" relationship interesting. Andy offered me the same content for a different blog (it wasn't my call to post the offer there), but I do not recall an offer of profit sharing. So I don't think the other bloggers weren't being transparent; I think that Stowe Boyd is probably just a good negotiator.

I'm glad you got the book from Mitch Joel/Six Pixels - he's a smart guy and an industry expert. If you're interested in other good reads, here are some I suggest:

- Balter's "Grapevine"
- Sernovitz's "Word Of Mouth Marketing"
- Shirky's "Here Comes Everybody"
- Li/Bernoff's "Groundswell"

Philippe

"not all seeds are created equally"

True! I saw that with Bring the love back/inspiration anyone :)

john moore (from Brand Autopsy)

Peter ... help me understand what I wrote about Dave’s book that “seems silly” to you? My post openly challenges the main premise of Dave’s book that pure word-of-mouth cannot be achieved. I also reinforce my dislike for using BzzAgents as a media channel to generate word-of-mouth. And, I close by saying that readers should judge for themselves whether or not they subscribe to Dave’s WOM ways.

As with John Janstch, I linked to Dave’s book because I respect and like Dave Balter.

Peter, I never knew you to have verve like this. Reckon I just fell into the ego trap you set … but I had to respond.

Peter Kim

John - clearly I've offended you, seeing as how you're leaving this comment after we've already exchanged private emails on the subject. Apologies for that.

Agreed, your post regarding Dave's book is balanced and objective. What may seem silly to readers is that so many prominent bloggers like yourself fell into an ego trap.

Moreover, I haven't read Dave's book (but I've mentioned it twice in this comment already) and I'd have to agree with you - this post has been getting lots of attention by being Friendfeeded, Tweeted, and Stumbled Upon. I haven't seen a BzzAgent leave a single cardboard comment here yet.

The more I think about this topic, the more I think about Annie Lennox. "Everybody's looking for something...some of them want to use you...some of them want to get used by you..."

john moore (from Brand Autopsy)

After I re-read this post and knowing the digital echo always remains, I had to chime in publicly. I'm not offended ... just surprised you positioned the post the way you did. You're just being provocative. All good Peter. All good.

Look me up when you are in Austin again.

Jeremiah Owyang

It's good to see folks understanding Peter's (former colleague, and current and future friend) post, without taking any personal offense. Peter is doing what he did very well at Forrester as an analyst: stating what he sees, backing it up with examples,

Pete was trained, expected, and well hired by companies to state what is happening, but not in the pretense of offending, but of being truthful so those who read and listen can know how to prepare and react.

For what it's worth, I've fallen for the go trap time and time again, I'm now moving away from it with my head --and heart.

Mack Collier

"Andy Sernovitz is a word-of-mouth marketing genius. He also set a perfect ego trap to promote a marketing workshop for his company, Gaspedal. Andy recruited a network of bloggers to promote his event. For free. Who fell into the trap?"

Pete did he 'recruit' them, or simply make them aware of the event? I believe Andy sent me an email about the event as well, and all I remember it being was a simple 'hey I am doing this, thought you might be interested so am passing it along to you' type email. I actually meant to blog about the event he had in July, but forgot. Did these bloggers blog about the event/book because they felt their egos had been stroked, or because they thought they were creating content that would benefit their readers?

And it could be argued that you are also setting a 'trap' by linking to several prominent bloggers. Are you doing so to add context to your post, or in attempt to get them to comment here? Or both?

Quite honestly, I think most of the bloggers that you imply were 'duped' into falling for these 'traps' don't need the 'ego stroke'. Their reputations and credibility are well-established, and my guess is they likely blogged about the books/events for reasons other than ego.

I will agree with you that bloggers in general love to have their egos stroked, but then again, that's a human condition, not a quality reserved to the blogosphere.

Pete

Mack - I don't think Andy's tactic was that simple. FYI's don't usually come with a personalized discount code. To answer your first question - "was ego stroked vs. useful content" - the answer is both. That's what makes a good trap.

Have I set a trap here? It wasn't my intention - linking to the bloggers and their posts provides facts to back up my analysis. I also emailed Andy and Dave directly to let them know my intent here was not malicious. They responded via email.

I disagree with your assessment that the A-listers weren't duped. When blogging turns into a business, attention becomes even more critical. Look at the way Gawker bloggers are compensated. Other interviews in the wake of Om Malik's heart attack (can't locate links) had bloggers talking about the burden to post and draw attention to their blogs.

True - ego stroking in some form or another is absolutely a human need, whether individuals decide to acknowledge it or not. And I honestly appreciate you commenting here as well.

seth godin

Words matter.

What if instead of "ego trap" you had written "successful hero marketing."

Same idea, different story.

Our worldview is that we don't like to be trapped and we don't like to admit we have an ego.

I think you've clearly delineated the intentional marketing efforts of some big thinkers, who, by the way, set out to do something generous.

And that's the key. Soon, really soon, in fact probably already, this will be corrupted by the selfish. And then it deserves to fail. But when it's inherently generous, hero marketing makes a lot of sense.

Tom Asacker

Great post Peter. Thanks. And imho, you've summed it up perfectly with this comment: "When blogging turns into a business, attention becomes even more critical."

The marketplace is pretty much all about ego; making choices and decisions that help us feel good about ourselves while moving our particular agendas forward.

But the blogosphere, as a subset of the marketplace, seems obsessed with the "social" component of marketplace value; connection, acceptance, attention, recognition, and reputation.

Any way, I really enjoyed your analysis.

P.S. If it wasn't about ego, you would not have stirred up so many self-defending comments (note: self = ego).

P.S.S. C'mon Seth. "Hero marketing?" Where, precisely, are the heroic acts? And admitting you have an ego is the first step in overcoming its influence. :)

Rick Liebling

Peter,

Thanks for the comment on my post regarding this issue (http://eyecube.wordpress.com/2008/08/26/when-marketing-bloggers-attack/). So, would it be fair to say that while you think this tactic is clever, you still find it somewhat dubious? I posted on Brand Autopsy that I viewed this as a 'victimless crime' as no one is really hurt, nor forced into anything that don't want to do.

But beyond this particular issue, I think it's great to see so many really smart people engaged in this discussion, taking both sides.

Peter Kim

Rick - I'm not here to make a judgment call; as I said on your blog, I thought the tactic was clever and effective. There may be victims now, egos bruised a bit.

Thanks Tom. And BTW it's not lost on me that my own blog is called "Being Peter Kim" - whether ego or lack of creativity, maybe some of both, it is what it is.

Hi Seth. I do agree that words matter. There's a difference between hero marketing and ego trap, driven in part by the influence/attention/authority of the bloggers in question. I'll clarify in a new post, I believe the words deserve particular attention...

Jim Kukral

Bloggers are vain. End of story. They love talking and promoting themselves. So this has worked forever, and will continue to work. Great examples.

The comments to this entry are closed.